What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
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@Linux_in_a_Bit not true anymore.
With AI integrated in most search engine, you often get the right response from it.
One of the few benefits of AI is that it can basically customise the documentation to make it sensible to you. It becomes a kind of live documentation.A simple how to fix … on [distro name] works 95% of the time in my experience.
@CedC@diaspodon.fr Do not peddle AI slop as the savior here. AI is not helpful, it is not useful. It is a prediction engine of what sounds like the right answer. Not what is the right answer, but what will sound plausibly like a correct answer.
That slop is part of the reason why the kindness in the Linux community is so important right now. AI is putting a lot of bad information out there. It is making up urls for people to download packages from that malicious folk then go and register domains for to offer up malware to these trusting people. It makes up names of packages and programs that do not exist, sending users into forums asking for total nonsense because the pedo-bot or the bullshit engine told them that would fix their problem. -
@Linux_in_a_Bit
A lot of subject matter experts think it is beneath them to explain something simple to a new user, and maybe even get off on making fun of them. I speak from experience, as someone who was that asshole in my younger days. A key difference between a junior vs a senior dev is not so much skill or knowledge, as mentoring other devs, helping them learn.
Saying "RTFM" is often unhelpful, whereas an actual link to TFM and maybe a section or page number might be helpful.@Linux_in_a_Bit
Certainly teaching new users how to find the answers is worthwhile, but that isn't just saying RTFM. One can give an answer or pointer, AND help them learn how to find things on their own.
Being rude to new users doesn't impress anyone, other than other assholes who like to be rude to new users. -
@Linux_in_a_Bit
Certainly teaching new users how to find the answers is worthwhile, but that isn't just saying RTFM. One can give an answer or pointer, AND help them learn how to find things on their own.
Being rude to new users doesn't impress anyone, other than other assholes who like to be rude to new users.@Linux_in_a_Bit
Sometimes a new user has a question for which it is obvious that there is no simple answer that they're likely to understand. It is possible to politely explain why, and still provide pointers to resources that might, if sufficiently studied, actually answer their question.
Sometimes a new user wants to know how to do something that simply is not possible in any practical way. Again, it's possible to politely explain that. -
@Linux_in_a_Bit
Sometimes a new user has a question for which it is obvious that there is no simple answer that they're likely to understand. It is possible to politely explain why, and still provide pointers to resources that might, if sufficiently studied, actually answer their question.
Sometimes a new user wants to know how to do something that simply is not possible in any practical way. Again, it's possible to politely explain that.@Linux_in_a_Bit
None of us were born experts on Linux, or on any aspect of computing. We all had to learn it, though our individual paths varied. Perhaps some of us have forgotten how frustrating that was at times.
Saying RTFM in a smug and condescending way benefits no one. -
S sofasophia@federation.network shared this topic
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@avoca@gladtech.social Let me tell you a story about how I started out on Linux two decades ago:
I knew I was going to need support, and I had a whole IRC channel of nerds telling me (one of two girls regularly there) that I needed to switch to Linux. Okay, I said, if one of you will be my on call support, I'll do it.
The masochist who agreed to my terms was on Mandrake cooker for his personal machine, an unstable rolling release. He had me install that shit without me having any idea what that meant. It didn't occur to him that it would be hard for me and cause me to ask him a lot of problems because he was so used to putting out small fires he didn't notice he was doing just that constantly.
In the end, I was saved by the Mandrake Newbies list, who realized what'd happened, then helped me step down to the Mandrake stable release.
But telling n00bs they need to just do their homework and pick a "good beginner distro" is fucking victim blaming. They have no idea what's what, they have to depend on the kindness of others to help them understand because the search engines are full of fucking slop these days, and the forums are full of RTFM bros.
If you can't be nice to people asking questions, shut your fucking mouth. Do not blame the people asking the questions.
@Linux_in_a_Bit@infosec.exchangeNice meet you too...
It was just an opinion mate...
And the folk who escaped the toxicity of X, Facebook, etc, etc to the, supposedly, more moderate Mastodon just love reading post's like your reply.
Oh, and, fuck you dickhead!
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@Linux_in_a_Bit my favorite in the irc days was when people said to rtfm and someone would paste the manual page back and it would say "TODO."@icedquinn @Linux_in_a_Bit I love how Debian has a few different manuals in different places for compiling a Linux kernel. With an up-to-date manual mentioning older kernel number than some others. 🫠
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Nice meet you too...
It was just an opinion mate...
And the folk who escaped the toxicity of X, Facebook, etc, etc to the, supposedly, more moderate Mastodon just love reading post's like your reply.
Oh, and, fuck you dickhead!
@avoca@gladtech.social My pronouns are in my bio, I am not your "mate", nor am I a dickhead. I am a woman who's been dealing with the toxicity of the Linux community for two decades and you're victim blaming here.
But nice to meet you too. -
@avoca@gladtech.social My pronouns are in my bio, I am not your "mate", nor am I a dickhead. I am a woman who's been dealing with the toxicity of the Linux community for two decades and you're victim blaming here.
But nice to meet you too.Fair enough.
Not really my fault though.
And, where I'm from, "mate' is a non-gendered term of de-escalation.
Oh, and, are you complaining about the toxicity of the "Linux Community", or providing an example of it?
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@CedC@diaspodon.fr Do not peddle AI slop as the savior here. AI is not helpful, it is not useful. It is a prediction engine of what sounds like the right answer. Not what is the right answer, but what will sound plausibly like a correct answer.
That slop is part of the reason why the kindness in the Linux community is so important right now. AI is putting a lot of bad information out there. It is making up urls for people to download packages from that malicious folk then go and register domains for to offer up malware to these trusting people. It makes up names of packages and programs that do not exist, sending users into forums asking for total nonsense because the pedo-bot or the bullshit engine told them that would fix their problem.@deathkitten
You are going to make me soud like an AI fan, which is not the case, but your statement is incorrect.Yes AI is a prédiction engine, but so are we.
If you make a llm play chess, which is not what it has been trained for, we now have proof that it _does_ create an internal representation of the board and its pieces event if it is not supposed to "know" the rules.
1/2
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Fair enough.
Not really my fault though.
And, where I'm from, "mate' is a non-gendered term of de-escalation.
Oh, and, are you complaining about the toxicity of the "Linux Community", or providing an example of it?
@avoca@gladtech.social Yup, let's call the woman who's angry about victim blaming toxic.
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@avoca@gladtech.social Yup, let's call the woman who's angry about victim blaming toxic.
FFS, READ you own stuff.
Your response to a generalised opinion was absolutely toxic.
Suggest you get counselling for that massive chip on your shoulder, or grow-up.
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FFS, READ you own stuff.
Your response to a generalised opinion was absolutely toxic.
Suggest you get counselling for that massive chip on your shoulder, or grow-up.
@avoca@gladtech.social lol, okay
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit So true. I'm too dumb to fix my own problems or to understand the arch wiki. All I do is meow all day and drink hot chocolate :3
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit Oh absolutely. Incidentally I read that as "finding a bistro", and I do think Linux could be more helpful there.
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@deathkitten
You are going to make me soud like an AI fan, which is not the case, but your statement is incorrect.Yes AI is a prédiction engine, but so are we.
If you make a llm play chess, which is not what it has been trained for, we now have proof that it _does_ create an internal representation of the board and its pieces event if it is not supposed to "know" the rules.
1/2
"proof" o_O
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"proof" o_O
@pikesley@mastodon.me.uk I just wanted to say I love your display name.
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
People respond "Did you Google it?"
Actually understandable after answering the same question many times.
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.Above responses have been seen on antiX and MX Forums, the persons concerned were warned or in at least one known case banned.
The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
Agree which is why I and others are present as helpers on Linux forums, mostly antiX and MX.
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@Linux_in_a_Bit @Kancept sure. But in days where chats are not fire and forget like irc the chat is asynchronous. So after a day or 2 the timezone argument IMHO doesn't work anymore. I am totally fine if a response takes a day or so. Sure it is frustrating it takes that long if something breaks on you but its reasonable. But beyond that it quickly turns into feeling like you aren't heard
@mtrnord @Linux_in_a_Bit no, I get that. It's like yelling into the void. You had said a few hours in your comment. A day or so, I can see the frustration.
For me, it's not so much time, but how so many use Discord these days as a support channel. No history to even search, really.
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Fair enough.
Not really my fault though.
And, where I'm from, "mate' is a non-gendered term of de-escalation.
Oh, and, are you complaining about the toxicity of the "Linux Community", or providing an example of it?
@avoca Did you really just claim to use mate as a "term of de-escalation" after ending your previous reply with fuck you dickhead?
Sorry to say this but: fuck you, dickhead!
