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Hot take: good riddance.

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  • glent@aus.socialG glent@aus.social

    @vkc There is history.

    What fuels the anger is the annoyance at the lack of reflection within Gnome of its role in the failure of desktop Linux.

    Most notably it's insular design choices in Gnome 3, and the early shipment of that non-ready software, reducing Linux's share of the market from MacOS levels to a third of that.

    Today, yet another insular design choice by Gnome. Of course people are going to give them stick. Even if it's a good decision.

    vkc@linuxmom.netV This user is from outside of this forum
    vkc@linuxmom.netV This user is from outside of this forum
    vkc@linuxmom.net
    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
    #65

    @glent "its role in the failure of desktop Linux"

    That's a GIGANTIC assumption. And is insulting to the hard working people who work on GNOME, many of whom had nothing to do with those so-called "insular design choices".

    It's open source, you can't force a team to do things your way. GNOME's foundation led to wonderful projects like Cinnamon, and I'd argue that the diversification has been a strength.

    IMO it's all needless harping on folks who have different opinions.

    glent@aus.socialG nicholas@aklp.clubN 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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    • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

      Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

      I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

      A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

      https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

      jannem@fosstodon.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jannem@fosstodon.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jannem@fosstodon.org
      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
      #66

      @vkc
      I've used Linux since 1995. I use it personally for fun, and I've used it professionally for 30 years, incuding some of the largest computers on earth. And I've used middle-click for that entire time.

      I love using Gnome, *because* it doesn't overwhelm me with options. It gets out of the way. And I think removing middle-click is the right decision. The utility just isn't worth the confusion - two clipboards and accidental middle-clicks still confuse me.

      jannem@fosstodon.orgJ 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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      • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

        The way the article is written. The way the comments talk about it.

        Why do people make it sound like GNOME is some sort of secret cabal of Linux haters?

        It's a freaking desktop environment, they have every right to build it however they want, and you have every right to use something different. There's zero reason to get emotionally charged about it.

        eseilt@mastodon.scotE This user is from outside of this forum
        eseilt@mastodon.scotE This user is from outside of this forum
        eseilt@mastodon.scot
        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
        #67

        @vkc They do have a history of breaking workflows for no good reason. My first thought was "they are going to drop support for it in the future and then I'm going to have to find a new DE again, what a headache".

        Of course they have the right to do whatever they please but it shouldn't be surprising that the existing users whose lives it makes more difficult will complain.

        Whether they always hit the right tone with their complaints is another matter, to be sure.

        eseilt@mastodon.scotE tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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        • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

          Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

          I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

          A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

          https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

          innerteapot@tiny.tilde.websiteI This user is from outside of this forum
          innerteapot@tiny.tilde.websiteI This user is from outside of this forum
          innerteapot@tiny.tilde.website
          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
          #68

          @vkc I won't miss the middle click at all. And I started on twm back in the 90's! Just another instance of a crappy click bait article 🤦‍♂️

          1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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          • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

            Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

            I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

            A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

            https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

            hinton@hachyderm.ioH This user is from outside of this forum
            hinton@hachyderm.ioH This user is from outside of this forum
            hinton@hachyderm.io
            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
            #69

            @vkc
            My feelings exactly!! I love GNOME and if I didn't, I would just move to a different distro. Simple as that.

            1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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            • baa@mk.absturztau.beB baa@mk.absturztau.be

              @vkc@linuxmom.net I'm not a fan of it either, never have been, it's also really hard to disable, even when switched off in Gnone, it still works in Firefox and the Terminal (in Ubuntu) and you can't disable it easily there ​​
              I think I heard it's an XORG thing, so maybe Wayland will change that, or it will be easier to control from Gnome, idk

              alatiera@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
              alatiera@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
              alatiera@mastodon.social
              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
              #70

              @Baa @vkc I will rework my firefox path so it will be mirroring the gnome setting once I find some time, but till then (assuming it lands too) you can disable middlemouse.paste in about:config

              1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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              • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                rappscal@dosgame.clubR This user is from outside of this forum
                rappscal@dosgame.clubR This user is from outside of this forum
                rappscal@dosgame.club
                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                #71

                @vkc I agree about making it opt-in, but given the legacy they ought to show it in the settings app not in some config file. If you upgrade your OS and it doesn't work like it's always worked before, it's reasonable to expect you could look in the mouse settings next to cursor and scroll speed

                vkc@linuxmom.netV 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                • bruce@darkmoon.socialB bruce@darkmoon.social

                  @vkc

                  Hmm. I thought the "people love that" line would have been enough of a clue that I was being facetious, but I guess not. Sorry. It was meant as a (apparently bad) joke.

                  tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                  tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                  tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud
                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                  #72

                  @bruce@darkmoon.social @vkc@linuxmom.net pro-tip: it's impossible to tell intentions of people over text. tone indicators are the way to go 🙂

                  1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                  0
                  • eseilt@mastodon.scotE eseilt@mastodon.scot

                    @vkc They do have a history of breaking workflows for no good reason. My first thought was "they are going to drop support for it in the future and then I'm going to have to find a new DE again, what a headache".

                    Of course they have the right to do whatever they please but it shouldn't be surprising that the existing users whose lives it makes more difficult will complain.

                    Whether they always hit the right tone with their complaints is another matter, to be sure.

                    eseilt@mastodon.scotE This user is from outside of this forum
                    eseilt@mastodon.scotE This user is from outside of this forum
                    eseilt@mastodon.scot
                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                    #73

                    @vkc I also had no idea people were having trouble with middle-button paste, until I saw people's reactions to this change.

                    It's such a delightful little helper, saves 2 keyboard interactions, doesn't ever paste formatting, gives me an extra buffer... and I don't recall ever having trouble with it since Firefox stopped opening everything pasted into it as a URL, many years ago.

                    Now I wonder what it is that I can't get used to that everybody else thinks is the best thing ever.

                    1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                    • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                      Anyway, if you like GNOME and their design concepts, you're awesome and totally a valid user of Linux.

                      Sick of the absurd nonsense that says otherwise.

                      970uts1d3@defcon.social9 This user is from outside of this forum
                      970uts1d3@defcon.social9 This user is from outside of this forum
                      970uts1d3@defcon.social
                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                      #74

                      @vkc ive been playing around with cosmic...its a gnome variant I'd say with tiling toggle per workspace. Very nice themeing features as well. Very new, but functional and snappy

                      1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                      • saorsa@neondystopia.worldS saorsa@neondystopia.world
                        It's frustration by the community using GNOME as they feel their interests aren't considered in the development process. This is a natural outcome in sociology.

                        When you use something, you typically have a vested interest in the prosperity of it. People tend to get frustrated when they feel ignored and some are passionate enough about it to voice their discontent.

                        I did the very same with you previously regarding paywalling your community.

                        *Edited.

                        @vkc@linuxmom.net
                        tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud
                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                        #75

                        @Saorsa@neondystopia.world @vkc@linuxmom.net worth noting most of those people dont use GNOME

                        1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                        • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                          @glent "its role in the failure of desktop Linux"

                          That's a GIGANTIC assumption. And is insulting to the hard working people who work on GNOME, many of whom had nothing to do with those so-called "insular design choices".

                          It's open source, you can't force a team to do things your way. GNOME's foundation led to wonderful projects like Cinnamon, and I'd argue that the diversification has been a strength.

                          IMO it's all needless harping on folks who have different opinions.

                          glent@aus.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                          glent@aus.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
                          glent@aus.social
                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                          #76

                          @vkc thanks for illustrating my point.

                          vkc@linuxmom.netV 1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                          0
                          • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                            In this period, in this timeline, at this moment, maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't talk about *desktop environment design disagreements* like they're causing deep emotional harm?

                            D This user is from outside of this forum
                            D This user is from outside of this forum
                            draeand@social.the-gdn.net
                            schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                            #77

                            @vkc Agreed. Although I wish wayland actually cared about accessibility

                            tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT emi@social.comfy.cityE 2 Antworten Letzte Antwort
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                            • theodric@social.linux.pizzaT theodric@social.linux.pizza

                              @vkc it's framed in obvious inflammatory rhetoric, and also "because X11 did it that way" is a total non-reason for nuking a feature common to graphical unices since the 1980s. But yes, I agree, they're free to do whatever they want in their little playground! GNOME has been pushing through the boundaries of sensible user interface design for quite a while now. Nothing new there.

                              tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                              tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud
                              schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                              #78

                              @theodric@social.linux.pizza @vkc@linuxmom.net You're talking as if the desktop hurt you personally.

                              1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                              • eseilt@mastodon.scotE eseilt@mastodon.scot

                                @vkc They do have a history of breaking workflows for no good reason. My first thought was "they are going to drop support for it in the future and then I'm going to have to find a new DE again, what a headache".

                                Of course they have the right to do whatever they please but it shouldn't be surprising that the existing users whose lives it makes more difficult will complain.

                                Whether they always hit the right tone with their complaints is another matter, to be sure.

                                tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud
                                schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                #79

                                @eseilt@mastodon.scot @vkc@linuxmom.net

                                They do have a history of breaking workflows for no good reason.

                                https://xkcd.com/1172/

                                whose lives it makes more difficult will complain.

                                Is clicking some button difficult?

                                1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                • jannem@fosstodon.orgJ jannem@fosstodon.org

                                  @vkc
                                  I've used Linux since 1995. I use it personally for fun, and I've used it professionally for 30 years, incuding some of the largest computers on earth. And I've used middle-click for that entire time.

                                  I love using Gnome, *because* it doesn't overwhelm me with options. It gets out of the way. And I think removing middle-click is the right decision. The utility just isn't worth the confusion - two clipboards and accidental middle-clicks still confuse me.

                                  jannem@fosstodon.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jannem@fosstodon.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jannem@fosstodon.org
                                  schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                  #80

                                  @vkc
                                  In general, being consistent, following standards and conforming to peoples expectations is more important than being optimal, in any sense.

                                  A great example is car control layout. The current two (or three) pedals and wheel layout can probably be improved. But not improved enough that it's worth disrupting the training and muscle memory of a billion people.

                                  Basic desktop controls are the same. Being consistent across all desktops is better than being optimal.

                                  1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
                                  0
                                  • glent@aus.socialG glent@aus.social

                                    @vkc There is history.

                                    What fuels the anger is the annoyance at the lack of reflection within Gnome of its role in the failure of desktop Linux.

                                    Most notably it's insular design choices in Gnome 3, and the early shipment of that non-ready software, reducing Linux's share of the market from MacOS levels to a third of that.

                                    Today, yet another insular design choice by Gnome. Of course people are going to give them stick. Even if it's a good decision.

                                    tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloudT This user is from outside of this forum
                                    tragivictoria@mastodon.catgirl.cloud
                                    schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                    #81

                                    @glent@aus.social @vkc@linuxmom.net

                                    What fuels the anger is the annoyance at the lack of reflection within Gnome of its role in the failure of desktop Linux.

                                    Dude, are you fucking serious? 4% and constantly growing is a failure?

                                    It's some project made by volunteers in their free time, people who are still personally offended GNOME 2 era is gone are owed NOTHING.

                                    Most notably it's insular design choices in Gnome 3, and the early shipment of that non-ready software, reducing Linux's share of the market from MacOS levels to a third of that.

                                    What the fuck are you talking about? Serious question.

                                    Today, yet another insular design choice by Gnome

                                    Ah yes, because surely feature that is constant source of confusion to more people that can be counted is insulated from the user base. If we sticked to the desires of loud minorities, we would get nowhere.

                                    1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                    • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                                      The way the article is written. The way the comments talk about it.

                                      Why do people make it sound like GNOME is some sort of secret cabal of Linux haters?

                                      It's a freaking desktop environment, they have every right to build it however they want, and you have every right to use something different. There's zero reason to get emotionally charged about it.

                                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                                      C This user is from outside of this forum
                                      chipaaco@mastodon.social
                                      schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                      #82

                                      @vkc totally agree, i usually listen this type of hate from Linux desktop gatekeepers. Looks like a sect

                                      1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                      • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                                        Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                                        I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                                        A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                                        https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                                        jcnotwit@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        jcnotwit@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        jcnotwit@mastodon.social
                                        schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                        #83

                                        @vkc Oh ffs no! Middle click under X has never meant "Paste". It has always meant "Insert the Primary Selection here". Any change to this will break my workflow. For those of you who, for youth or for newness, have no idea what I'm talking about, this is a good write up: https://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html

                                        1 Antwort Letzte Antwort
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                                        • vkc@linuxmom.netV vkc@linuxmom.net

                                          Hot take: good riddance. I dislike the middle click thing. Trips me up all the time as someone who accidentally clicks it when scrolling.

                                          I think the right move is to make this (undoubtedly useful to some) behavior opt-in, not opt-out.

                                          A lot of the gripes I see are just people being mad because GNOME makes choices they don't like. I don't understand why people write like this about GNOME, if you don't like it don't use it, your emotions make you look petty, etc etc.

                                          https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/07/gnome_middle_click_paste/

                                          klymilark@coypu.fallcounty.omg.lolK This user is from outside of this forum
                                          klymilark@coypu.fallcounty.omg.lolK This user is from outside of this forum
                                          klymilark@coypu.fallcounty.omg.lol
                                          schrieb zuletzt editiert von
                                          #84
                                          They really said "I implore the GNOME team to spend a day using Windows with just your keyboard, it's useful" about them removing a feature from the mouse on Linux?
                                          I get that other tools can have some useful features, but... I don't see how that is relevant to the rest of the article at all?
                                          I'm also not a fan of arguments from tradition in general. ddate was included in util-linux until 2012(ish, I've also seen 2011), despite not really belonging there.
                                          Keeping it as an opt-in feature is what I think should happen, personally. I didn't even really look into disabling it, but I won't miss it
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