Here's a thought experiment.
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@gisgeek what do you mean with "be more coherent"?
@sjn Simply, I see such AI things as yet other tools; it is not the end of the world, and fighting against them is no different from fighting against cameras, digital art, CGI in cinema, the whole cinema (versus theatre), and so on. So why AI mark only? One could add the Handcrafted mark vs Industrial. Is that a quality marker? Not necessary so: a lot of handcrafted things are simply bad products, plain and clean.
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@sjn Simply, I see such AI things as yet other tools; it is not the end of the world, and fighting against them is no different from fighting against cameras, digital art, CGI in cinema, the whole cinema (versus theatre), and so on. So why AI mark only? One could add the Handcrafted mark vs Industrial. Is that a quality marker? Not necessary so: a lot of handcrafted things are simply bad products, plain and clean.
@sjn
Anyway, thanks for your poll; it sparked a possible blog post where I could better articulate why quality is a human-driven goal, not something intrinsically present or absent in AI-aided design. High-quality or good enough are often the choices in many fields, regardless of tools. -
@sjn Simply, I see such AI things as yet other tools; it is not the end of the world, and fighting against them is no different from fighting against cameras, digital art, CGI in cinema, the whole cinema (versus theatre), and so on. So why AI mark only? One could add the Handcrafted mark vs Industrial. Is that a quality marker? Not necessary so: a lot of handcrafted things are simply bad products, plain and clean.
@gisgeek I get your analogies, though I'm afraid they might be failing you.
The #LLM tools today aren't like CGI or digital art or the introduction of television.
Your examples are are tools of the hand and of trade and markets.
#AI tools are tools of the mind. They aren't just a support for thinking, but increasingly a _replacement_ for thinking, and this includes all the consequences that come from this.
We regulated the use of tools to avoid the bad behavior. Maybe do the same with AI?
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@gisgeek I get your analogies, though I'm afraid they might be failing you.
The #LLM tools today aren't like CGI or digital art or the introduction of television.
Your examples are are tools of the hand and of trade and markets.
#AI tools are tools of the mind. They aren't just a support for thinking, but increasingly a _replacement_ for thinking, and this includes all the consequences that come from this.
We regulated the use of tools to avoid the bad behavior. Maybe do the same with AI?
@gisgeek I think polls like these are useful for identifying where it would make sense to introduce a "Drivers license for #AI".
Clearly, this tool is being used to hurt people today – in too many ways to list here.
Does the few positive/constructive use cases weigh up against the damage that is done by #LLM tools today?
Clearly not.
And this is important because we don't live on our separate software/tech bubbles. We live in a society, together with everyone else.
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@gisgeek I think polls like these are useful for identifying where it would make sense to introduce a "Drivers license for #AI".
Clearly, this tool is being used to hurt people today – in too many ways to list here.
Does the few positive/constructive use cases weigh up against the damage that is done by #LLM tools today?
Clearly not.
And this is important because we don't live on our separate software/tech bubbles. We live in a society, together with everyone else.
@sjn Ah sure, the impact of AI on society is a much larger topic, my observation was only about simplicistic labeling of quality for human-only vs AI-aided tasking. I'm worried too for many aspects of the AI-revolution, but which are largely due to our (as a whole society) total incapacity of managing changes in a proper way, for instance in order to avoid leaving people behind.
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@sjn Ah sure, the impact of AI on society is a much larger topic, my observation was only about simplicistic labeling of quality for human-only vs AI-aided tasking. I'm worried too for many aspects of the AI-revolution, but which are largely due to our (as a whole society) total incapacity of managing changes in a proper way, for instance in order to avoid leaving people behind.
@gisgeek The impact of #AI on society isn't actually such a large topic.
We can easily cut right through the rhetoric and complexities, and ask one simple question:
Does using #AI help us create a society that is better for all of us?
Those who say yes tend to be of the techno-optimist type, always hoping, looking forward, maybe a bit naïve?
Those who say no tend to be the realist type, looking at what happens today and shaking their head in dissent.
Those who are deep experts, shout #NoAI!
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Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
@sjn i mean in the end this is not about the actual result just about a signal ai in general IS error prone because it has to be.
So quality control aside, someone decided to go for an error prone production process and a large quantity of product both these things signal a lower production quality. And no single individual cared enough to do it themselves.
For art, for me art is a human expression, ai automaticallly fails. Can it create pleasing images or the like sure. Doesn't matter.
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@gisgeek The impact of #AI on society isn't actually such a large topic.
We can easily cut right through the rhetoric and complexities, and ask one simple question:
Does using #AI help us create a society that is better for all of us?
Those who say yes tend to be of the techno-optimist type, always hoping, looking forward, maybe a bit naïve?
Those who say no tend to be the realist type, looking at what happens today and shaking their head in dissent.
Those who are deep experts, shout #NoAI!
@sjn ROTFL, if the world were in black and white, we would have lived in a perfect society for ages. Unfortunately, there is nothing that is good or bad a priori, and the future is always in the fog. If one were to base a decision on what it seems at the present time, we probably would still live in a forest. Changes are never good for all people, so the logical decision would be no changes at all.
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@sjn
Ah nice example the image. Let me explain. Incidentally, I'm perfectly able to draw a self-portrait of myself in Moebius style. But I had no intention to do that for a series of reason, including the time to dedicate to use ink and colors for that (I'm an old fashioned amateur comic book artist). I deliberately choose to not doing that. So the use of AI says exactly nothing about me (i.e, it is not relevant) which is the point. Did you draw your avatar personally? -
@sjn ROTFL, if the world were in black and white, we would have lived in a perfect society for ages. Unfortunately, there is nothing that is good or bad a priori, and the future is always in the fog. If one were to base a decision on what it seems at the present time, we probably would still live in a forest. Changes are never good for all people, so the logical decision would be no changes at all.
@gisgeek Yeah, nothing's perfect, and expecting something to be so is just as naïve as huffing hopium while waiting for someone else to decide how our future turns out.
We get to ask the questions, say what is desirable and what is not, and use our influence to help steer our society in a positive direction, through political engagement, lawmaking, public discourse and consensus-building.
Yes, this isn't black/white, but simple questions can help us see if this shade of grey is dark or light.
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Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
@sjn
I'm not in to art, only listening to music.
I would notice the difference between a AI picture or a human made one, if there are no bad errors like 6 fingers on one hand.There is a AI band, except mastering everything is done by the AI, trained by humans on contract.
The songs are good enough for me to store on my phone.As far as I got the LLM stuff, everything depends on the prompt.
ATM LLMs are only a better search engine for me, but only used if normal search isn't getting me the results in searching for.
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Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
@sjn I don't necessarily expect lower quality, but I do at the very least know that creative rights have been violated in creating it, so I would be less inclined to buy/use it.
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Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
@sjn Assuming by AI we mean LLMs, this stamp would essentially say "no one cared to think this through". -
Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
@sjn
Even it the real quality of the product/service was the same, it generally means that it is less interesting -
Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
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Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
@sjn While my assumption is that AI products will be of lower quality in some (not always obvious) fashion, I think that would not be the reason to avoid such a product.
Provenance matters! An exquisitely cut gemstone with a "blood diamond" tag on it just isn't as appealing as its quality would suggest
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Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
@sjn you omitted the option 'completely useless if not for propaganda' here, sorry
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@sjn
The use of AI is not relevant for quality. One produces good or bad products with or without AI use.
It is definitely dependent on the human side, whether or not her/his homework is done. Let me say that I saw shitty code produced by humans and AI, as well as good enough code.@gisgeek @sjn you’re missing the point. The question isn’t whether #AI will help generate better code or not, it’s what effect the presence of a “made with AI” badge would have on perceived quality.
Yes, a skilled programmer can absolutely use AI to generate even better code, for every one of them there are at least ninety-nine other goobers gleefully churning out slop as fast as their slop churning machine will go.
This means that when I see a “made by AI” badge, there’s a 1% chance it’s quality and 99% chance it’s slop.
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Here's a thought experiment.
Imagine a stamp mark with the words "Made with #AI" on it.
If you see this mark on a picture, illustration, mobile app, song, movie, or story - do you get the notion that this product is of higher, lower or unchanged quality?
If you see two identical products for the same price, where one has an AI mark and the other doesn't - which one would you buy?
@sjn
I’m torn, because although in general I’d assume the “made with AI” suggested lesser quality, I have seen a lot of tat made by humans where quality was not a consideration at all… -
@sjn It is also one (not the main) reason why none of my drawings have been published on the web by me. Sure, I could add a license and copyright (but I would probably use a CC-BY license), but that would not prevent possible abuses.
Of course, creators are now extremely worried about their role and future, but none did the same when CGI was introduced in cinema (and that is largely computer-generated, with no ridiculous marks).
So maybe people should b more ehm, coherent...
